RIPE 91
Main hall
21 October 2025
6 p.m.
Diversity in tech
DENESH BHABUTA: I think we're ready to start. Before there is an announcement from RIPE NCC, the buses for tonight's networking event will leave the hotel at 8:15 and 8:30 p.m. You have loads of time. The session is only going to be for an hour, maybe two or three hours but you'll still get your buses.
Anyway, that's the note.
So, we're in it Romania, so buna seara. Good evening everyone. It's nice to see people here, and quite a few people online as well.
I have already forgotten. So, welcome to the diversity equity and inclusion in tech session. And it's really great to see that we always have well a full room actually, that's really nice, I am Denesh, for those of you who don't know me, I am part of this community for 29 years, and my first RIPE meeting was in 1997 in Dublin, and actually Mirjam and John crane are were the ones who did my first RIPE training, well actually the only RIPE training, but such a long time ago. Being part of this community has been a privilege. I have been able to see it evolve and become more and more inclusive over time. So it's really nice to be part of this community because I felt welcomed at all times and giving feedback has been taken on board, not only by myself but by members of the community, and as a community has grown and new members have joined, that feedback is always taken on board.
So, for me, it's a real honour to have been asked by Mirjam to Chair this session. I was allowed to curate it and so I am really, really happy to present tonight's theme: Being human, real stories and real journeys.
So, before we go any further, there is a bit of housekeeping of course. The Code of Conduct applies. Please be respectful to each other. When it comes to questions and answers, Q&A, after each talk, there are two talks, after each talk there will be time for Q&A. If you are in the room you can go to the microphones, there is one there,ing here and one over there. Please introduce yourself by giving your name and your affiliation and ask your question. For those who are online, Trix is here from RIPE NCC who will be monitoring Meetecho chat and asking the questions opt microphone live.
So, about the theme. Within this community, within this world we talk about connecting networks, connecting regions and connecting people. And also, the thing is that but what really matters to me is connecting through our stories, because our experiences are life experiences, they shape us, they shape us to make who we are and how we show up for others, not only with our families, with our friends but also others that we are colleagues with, and sometimes it's nice to hear other people's stories, because they help ‑‑ they inspire us, they help us to maybe change our perspective and see what other people are thinking, because you don't know other people's experiences unless you walk in their shoes, but you can't walk in their shoes, but it's always about listening, it's always about understanding, and that's the way that we can all involve and become fully inclusive as a society and within the RIPE NCC community.
So, I'm really happy to present today's two speakers, truly incredible and inspiring speakers, not only for me, but also for everyone here, because I'd like to hear their stories. So, do listen, because it is about listening. Do listen, do lean in, stay curious and maybe some of this will resonate with you.
So, at this stage, I would like to introduce our first speaker, Maribel Aburto, she's the co‑founder and creative founding of CREATIVA. It spans across New Zealand, Australia, Canada and Ireland. Well, actually, I met Maribel maybe two years ago at a social workers at the RIPE meeting in Rotterdam, but I had already worked with Maribel, because she did the UK NOF logo for us, yes she did, worked really closely with us, but also, you know, she, she is life partners with my dearest friend, Sebastian Castro, who is already a community member.
So, what she does is I find really inspiring because it's an all women led creative agency. And it builds inclusive digital experiences for women in business. Also, it's her first RIPE meeting. So, in her talk, she'll share how her journey has shaped a new kind of creative leadership of, one that's grounded in inclusion, creativity and heart. So please give a big warm RIPE welcome to Maribel.
(Applause)
MARIBEL ABURTO: Hello everyone. So, full disclosure, my heart is pounding, my first RIPE meeting. Thank you for joining the session.
I want to start start with something very, very simple. I didn't plan to start a business. I left my country 18 years ago with my husband and two kids and it wasn't in the plan. I just wanted to find my place in the world. That was 18 years ago, right after I turned 30. Don't do the math please. I was trying to find a place not just for me but for my family to grow. I had a graphic design degree, and I had plenty of motivation to start my career somewhere. I didn't know where.
Anyway, I started looking for jobs in different places that we lived, but I didn't get anything for many many years. So, in the meantime, every time I tried to find or apply to a job, I got these subtle message right back at me saying: You don't quite fit here. So, I decided okay I'm going to do my own thing, I was doing small design projects for myself, friends and family, and when it started as a way to just survive, keep myself creative, keep learning, it turned out to be something much bigger than that.
So, quickly introduce myself, my name is Maribel, I'm the co‑founder of creative director. I am a website designer. I married my high school sweetheart over there, he said don't mention me, but he is over there, Sebastian, you know him, we have been together for 33 years and we got pregnant at 17, I was just finishing high school and he was starting university. So, it was really a bit hard in our country where religious and conservative 30 years ago. That's another story.
So, we have two kids now. They have already left the nest, we are empty nesters, I am a co‑founder and a business owner and I lead a team of six women at the moment.
So, today I am going to share with you my experience with migration and how it shaped my leadership, how inclusion became part of who we are, and what I learned along the way.
So, a long story short, I am from Chile. We're from Chile. After we had our second child one day we were watching the news and they were talking about the Australian skill migrant visa. My dear husband turned to me and he said. "Babes do you want to go to Australia" and I say "Babes let's do it" and that's how it started. So, we started the process, just like that.
And a little later he got invited to work in San Diego. It was a great opportunity for him. It was for the family. So we say let's go. Pack our bags, take the kids and off we go to the United States. We stayed there for two and a half years, the kids went to school and picked up the language just like that. Not in my case. That age it's not the same.
In the meantime, I enjoyed San Diego. A beautiful place, I was looking after the kids, I was allowed to work because of the visa we had, I was allowed to work just a few hours a he can would. I ended up working at a Subway making sandwiches, I was a sandwich artist, that's how they call it really.
So at some point we decided we're not staying in the States, thank God, we are moving again. We unpost the Australian visa we started back in Chile and we got the visa and that visa allowed us to work and live in New Zealand, before that my husband tried to apply for jobs from over there, didn't get anything, but this little ad popped up in the job listings, it was perfect for him but it was in Wellington New Zealand, to Mr. Google, where is Wellington, New Zealand, we have no idea about the country, the weather, the people, nothing. We didn't know anyone that lived over there. So, he got the job, packed or bags, took the kids, off we go again.
So, New Zealand, we stayed there for 13 years, we had a great time over there. The kids went to school, high school, university, and for me it was much better to start learning and practising the language. Back in California it was full of Spanish speakers, so I went out, everyone speaks Spanish, I content a practice my English, so it was just in New Zealand when that actually improved my language.
In New Zealand, when the kids had a good life as to we became citizens, so Chileans and Kiwis, after a few years ‑‑ in the meantime, what I was doing, I was doing a small design jobs here and there, for friends and family. I was doing some arts and crafts trying to sell stuff, trying to keep creative, trying to do something. I worked in hospitality, I worked in retail, which I didn't enjoy, but I did it anyway, it was good.
And after a few years, probably after ten, eleven years, the globe trotter back kept crawling again and we started thinking, maybe one day we can move to Europe. That would be nice. Maybe when the kids grow up and we are just the two of us. It was a long term plan. But my husband got this offer to work in Ireland. We sit down with the kids, they were already grown up. The youngest was almost finishing high school so we all agree, let's do this again. Pack the bags, this time didn't take the kids, they were grown up deciding what to do with their lives. So, we moved to Ireland. And we have been there for almost three years. That's me on my first Saint Patrick's Day.
So, I want to take you to another side of the story which happened to me and I have heard from many other ladies that have the same background. There are some challenges when you are a migrant woman and when you are following the family and your husband. Don't get me wrong, I am happy to support my husband's job, it was a great opportunity not only for him. But for the whole family.
But there are many things, many factors that are very common. There are language barriers, there are lack of job flexibility, there is a constant juggling that we have to manage home and family, and plus trying to manage also a career. And there is a lack of local network and support systems, which is big, especially when you come from Latin American community. Will we used to have all the family around and that help you with raising the kids, looking after them.
So in my case, for example, language barriers. It took me a long time, like many many years, to be able to speak fluently, that people understand me, it took a long time. So that was a big barrier for me when trying to go and get a job.
The lack of job flexibility. I actually lost the job that I got back in New Zealand because of this. I got a job as a web support person in a company that provides booking system for hospitality venue. So hotels, motels. They have a little department where, where I was setting up their websites and teaching them how to use them and providing support to the clients. So, I was there for two years and it was great because I could improve my English, and I learned how to deal with clients directly it of. But one day we were about to go on the Christmas break and it was like a little bit flexible, my position, because I have to go and commute to the suburbs to pick up the kids after school, or the kids get sick, you know, sometimes. And it was like a very flexible job. Will I started around nine, but I finished around 4:30 tops, the full‑time went to just 5:30, so just one hour more to go full‑time. But I couldn't do that. But my employer said before Christmas break "You come back from the Christmas break to a full‑time job or you don't come back." So I said I struggle that whole break, what do I do? And we talk for hours, what do we do? At the end, yeah, I have to say, yeah, no, I can't. I'm not going to go back. So that happens.
It was like a lot of many years after I got this job, so I was okay, what do I do now? How many years do I have to wait to get another job like that? So I thought okay, maybe if I don't get the opportunity that I need now, maybe I create something myself. So I went and talked to a friend that I had, also in New Zealand, she is from Brazil, also with a young family, also a graphic designer, way better English than mine, more experience in the industry than myself, and she was in the same position, applying, applying, applying, not getting anything. So I said okay, what if we do something together? So we don't have the opportunity that we need, let's go and build it.
That's how we CREATIVA started 11 years ago. In a way to leading to the space that we needed. We started very small, just the two of us, knowing nothing about business, no business plan, how to get clients, how to invoice, nothing. We have to learn on the go. But we started very slowly a little project here and there, a business card for this lady, a brochure here, after a year I started building a small website and so on. Very slowly a little business.
So, it was around getting business when I met another lady, also lat even a, also with a kid, also struggling with job and language, blah blah blah, the same story. So I said why don't you come with me on a Friday two or three hours because I need someone to help me with my social media images. That was it. And we can hang out have a coffee. After a couple of months, she said to me that how grateful she was that I was changing her life. I was like but it's just social media images, but I realise that if ‑‑ I was there before, so that was kind of my story, a very similar story. And then that made me realise maybe I can bring other ladies with a similar story, same backgrounds and work with us, we can expand the service that we provide to our clients, and we can expand the capacity of my agency. By then I didn't call it an agency. That was like too big of a word for our little business, but it started growing. Today, we are six ladies on the team. You have Chile, Brazil, New Zealand, Vietnam, Australia, Canada in that six photos. We have people from Russia, from the Philippines, Kenya, United States. People that come and go, and everyone with the same stories. Very similar stories.
So for us diversity is not a box to tick it. It's basically how ‑‑ it's who we are, it's how this little business began. I asked Vic, she is our assistant, she has been with us for five or six years, to write something about what it meant to her to be part of CREATIVA, and she wrote me a long paragraph. But what stood how the to me she said even though we are spread across the world, we never feel alone. And for me, the first thing that I thought when I think like the opportunity that I am giving these ladies is like space, flexible space that we can grow like professionally, grow their careers. But it goes actually beyond that. They feel connected, they feel they belong, and that strikes me when they said that.
So diversity goes beyond our team because in all these eleven years, we have had a lot of clients, and they are also a diverse bunch. Most of them are women from all over, all kinds of backgrounds, mums, women of colour, but also we have amazing male clients that are happy to work with us.
So, for us, for me, this kind of leadership value is a business practice.
Now I want to share what I have learned in my eleven years of working in CREATIVA. First, lead with empathy, so leadership is all about listening, good leadership is about listening for me. When you listen and you understand and you are able to put yourself in the shoes of others or your team, you are able actually to make better decisions not only for your business but also for them.
Flexibility is a form of respect. Well flexibility is like key word for me. Even before I had my business. I needed something flexible. That's what I'm providing now and I feel like by giving these ladies the chance of working in a way that fits their lives, I'm providing some sort of respect, and respect their space, the way that they want to live and work.
Leadership is about care, not control. As we said dont's feel alone is because we really care about our team, and our clients, and we make sure that we show that.
Leadership is a practice of presence. Something that I do all the time is to make sure that I connect with the team. Even though we are spread all over the world we use Slack and we are always checking in. If the kids got sick, how are they? And give them the space and the care and the presence and show that they know I'm there for them.
Now, there are some personal lessons as well. Migration taught me how to adapt. Migration, any sort of things in life, if you can adapt to what live throws at you you just can grow.
Leadership taught me how to include. So I wanted to be included before in the jobs, in the community, and I want now my team to feel included. Success for me is about belonging.
So, I want to you take away something. If you can take something from here, I would love you to take 1, that inclusion is not a policy, it's a choice. You choose to listen. You choose to understand. You choose to put yourself in the shoes of others. And if you can't, you just ask, it's not difficult. It's a choice.
Leadership is about care, not control. Again, showing that you care from other people, not just the people you work with, it's not just myself and my team but for everyone.
And 3, we all need a place to belong to grow. This is very important for migrant people like me and for women. But anyone, it doesn't matter if you are not a migrant, as humans we all need community, we all need ‑‑ it can be just your family, it could be your church, it could be your hiking group, we always need some space where we belong.
So as I said before when I started, I didn't plan to start a business, I didn't. But I am so grateful and I am proud of how it turned out. I just wanted ‑‑ I just was looking for a solution to my struggles on finding a job in design, but it turned out to become a space where, it turned out to be a space were other women could be included.
Thank you.
(Applause)
DENESH BHABUTA: So, any comments and questions? It yes, of course.
AUDIENCE SPEAKER: I can say that I really like your presentation, and I really admire how brave you are, because I am, also I am a grant woman and I know how many challenges you can face, like I just like also your lessons. So, I have a question. Where can I find certain information in order to join your team and your project? I really want to.
MARIBEL ABURTO: Well, even though I know that a lot of women out there that need this flexible opportunities and I would love to ‑‑ my big goal is to grow the business and bring more people to the team and serve more clients, I am always looking for ladies to join the team. So, I have a QR there, you can scan it, and the link is there, just reach out.
AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Okay.
MARIBEL ABURTO: What do you do? Is.
AUDIENCE SPEAKER: I am currently interning much learning and also I have a job as a product manager in a network company, so loads of, loads of deals. I just want to join your team because it was pretty ‑‑ like, with loads of emotions, it's like feeling like something true but not in oh that's really strange company, we're all like with poker faces. So I really liked this part of your presentation. Thanks so much to you.
AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Hi, first of all, I want to welcome you in the community, Maria, thank you. I really wanted to thank you for the inspiring session that you shared with us and you can only say that I share the same values and I think you are really strong, so thanks a lot, Maribel.
AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Hello. Thank you Maribel for your speech. It was inspiring. I am Josephine, and I wanted to ask throughout your work now, this 10, 11 years, if I gathered correctly, have you ever thought of ‑‑ that you may be wished that you started even earlier with your entrepreneurial endeavours?
MARIBEL ABURTO: Good question. I never thought about that. I always think that everything came at the right time, even the job that I lost, I learned from everything, even the hospitality and retail jobs that I had before, they taught me something different that I apply you had to in my business. So, actually all the journey that I shared from since I left my country until I arrived to Ireland, everything, I think everything happened ‑‑ everything led me to what I created at that point in time. Maybe it would have been good, who knows? But I never thought about it, I think it was like the right time for me.
AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Thank you that's very interesting, I also have one more question if that's okay. What would you recommend to a young woman such as me at the start of my career who might be like afraid of following their entrepreneurial wishes and starting something of their own but thinking oh I have to be strategic or I have to think of my CV, have the logical steps?
MARIBEL ABURTO: From my experience, since I start, decided to open my business, it was everything about connections. Not about my resume or how pretty my website or ‑‑ it is pretty, I am a web designer, but it was everything about connection, going to networking, meeting other ladies in business because that was my area, but it depends on your industry, join groups where there are people like yourself, sharing the same ideas or the same career. Everything from, since day one until today, everything is about connection. So, finding your place, your group, that can maybe not only be your clients or your ‑‑ even collaboraters, people who can refer you to others or make you an introduction.
AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Thank you.
AUDIENCE SPEAKER: I am maybe, you know, short. Speaking for myself, I am entrepreneur as well, Spanish, so ‑‑ and a mother of two, Latino culture, to everything resonates. Rather than looking outside, look within, because we heard Maribel's a story about her finding her place and constantly about you were saying I am doing this, I am starting and learning, so, you can through your essence be and I really want to commend you for the thought that you put into bringing the simplicity of how important leadership is about and you bring the essence of what leadership should be. I also want to commend you because you are in an industry that is so aggressive that it is the advertisement and all that stuff, the design thing. They are only hitting the business target, they very aggressive with employees as well, their craziness, flexibility is not in the equation of that industry, so you are an outstanding outlier, you should be proud of that.
And wow, I think your presentation, especially the leadership and the takeaways should be widespread more.
MARIBEL ABURTO: I have to put everything in one space.
AUDIENCE SPEAKER: In terms of being more shared, because it brings a lot of food for thought, congratulations.
DENESH BHABUTA: Anything online, any comments? Thank you Maribel.
(Applause)
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So, the next speaker I'm really happy to also introduce, they have been ‑‑ they have been a huge part of my own professional journey and my own personal journey. I first met Kei ‑‑ well we go back a long time, I first met Kei in 1996, and they have been a mentor, a collaborator, and a true friend. What I think most of my career highlights, they have been during the times that we have worked together.
About Kei, not about me. They have spent four decades in this industry in this community shaping the Internet world, co‑founding some of the UK's early institutions, helping in the RIPE ‑‑ representing RIPE and RIPE NCC, collaborating within that. And mostly led DNS OARC as president. And although mostly retired now, still gives back wherever they can.
So, tonight, Kei will share honest reflections from that journey on identity, on disability and ageing.
And what it really means to be part of our community so once again please a large warm RIPE welcome for Kei.
(Applause)
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KEI MITCHELL: Thank you Denesh, and thank you Maribel for a great presentation. I am going to give a very different kind of talk but I think there are some common themes in there, and thank you all for being here and listening.
So, I have been doing this a while. So, I am just going to try and pick out a few things from my career that I think might be of interest to this audience.
So, I have been doing this a while. Give you a little bit of background on that, talk a little bit about my gender identity. I also have a mild disability which is hearing impairment, so, I want to say a few things about that and about disability generally.
Also, a few things about ageing professionally, I have been doing this a long time, there is quite a few miles on the clock, and also just like to, you know, I have added to the end of my presentation a little reading list which I think is relevant, but I won't speak to that.
So, my career history. It's been entirely in network engineering, mostly Internet operations. At some point I became not so much a practicing engineer as pivoting to the non‑profit governance and management of this space that we find ourselves in, and I have managed to spend my entire careers in start ups, small businesses, non‑profits, membership organisations. I have never worked for a large corporation, I am very glad that I didn't actually.
Another thing I have in common with Maribel is the imgrant experience, I have split my career almost evenly between the UK and the US. I am a joint UK/US citizen, like most of the people in this room, my linguality only extends to American versus US English, I think that's one thing I can code switch.
Anyway. So, I graduated in computer science from two of the UK's strongest universities. I was privileged at university college London back in the eighties to be taught by Peter Kursting who was very much one the fathers of the UK Internet. Then I got involved in founding various of the UK's Internet institutions, some of which are still with us and thriving, which I am very proud of, and then I mixed, when I moved to the US I did a mixture of working for Internet systems consortium and also for DNS‑QUARC and then I have led OARC for about a dozen years up until the end of the year before last. I finished up being on the RIPE NCC Board here, I think I was the youngest and therefore sufficiently harmless to do that job. And also was the Chair of the IX Working Group which is now the Connect Working Group.
These days I enjoy being mostly retired so I get to go to the conferences I enjoy as opposed to the ones I have to go to. But I am still self‑employed and I am still trying to contribute, I mean in RIPE I am on the arbiter's panel, all right I look a bit different on that photo than I do today. If you want to have a summary of my career, it's always the DNS. You may not be interested in the DNS, the DNS is interested in you.
So, pivoting from the professional stuff to the personal stuff. Over the past decade or two, I have come to understand that I don't conform to binary gender norms. It took me a little while to figure out but I identify as bi‑gender, most of the time see above professional resume you'll get quay. Some of the time. Mostly social events you'll get Keira, this is actually the first time that Keira has kind of bust the firewall and given a presentation.
So, this sound confusing. I'll try an make it not confusing. Pronouns, when I'm Keith, he/him. When I am Keira she/her pronouns, if I'm trying to revert to myself neutrally or collectively, then you can use Kei, they/them pronouns. There is a lot of difference between these two photographs. It takes a bit of rocket fuel, and on the one hand I am unambiguous in how I present but it also means it can create interesting situations. They/them always works, it's fine.
So, I have found my balance. It's taken quite a few decades. But I also recognise that it's different for other non‑binary people, in particular I have no intention of any kind of permanent transition of my own gender but I very much support and respect those who do, and I am honoured to have many of them as friends.
I am also mindful that my ability to move freely between countries, between genders is a privilege that I enjoy, and I recognise at the moment how vulnerable trans people are at this point in time. So I certainly consider myself an ally to all gender diverse people and also identifying human beings.
Six years ago I did something that I never expected to do which was to come out in a professional environment, and most of the coming, if you go how do I come out as LGBT at work, most the playbooks are for that not for trans people, certainly not for weird hybrids like myself, and there is also this interesting thing where having two personas that are not obviously the same person can create various kinds of awkward situations. And I am introvert. So,s it means that sometimes I can't figure out how to approach somebody and say, you know, this is me, and I am pretty sure over the years as I have shown up at Internet conference social events I have created more than had a small amount of confusion, embarrassment. I apologise, that's on me. It's very much the case that there is no playbook for this, some parts of society are figuring it out with more compassion and rationality than others, there is no single script for who, where, or when to be open with whom.
Some of the things that I have learned. How do you come out? Well, I have tried several ways to do this. There is the talk where you sit down with your co‑worker one on one and you explain it all. And that can be awkward and nerve racking, probably for for me than it was for the other person. You can also go surprise, which I have done a few times, not always intentionally, and that's not always very fair on the recipients.
The announcement not so much, it's more a kind of large organisation thing I think, I guess could you consider this presentation my announcement. Then there is acting normal and gently letting people figure it out. Most of the people in the community are smart aware people, they generally figure it out and that seems to work reasonably well. But, you know, what I have experienced, despite all the confusion and mismatching and nerves and all the rest, is authencity of being who you are and representing who we are, we are not monsters who are trying to destroy society we are people trying to make our way in the world, is really important. I have to say all my co‑workers and most people in the RIPE operations community have been very welcoming and supportive, I am grateful for that.
Switching to some slightly different personal stuff. I have a progessive hearing impairment, it's a mild disability. It's not a serious one. In fact it's something that everyone will get eventually. What I have is high frequency loss but I got it maybe a decade or two ahead of when people normally get it. It's probably hereditary, but that's just adding grain to my geneticist wife that hearing generally is complicated. I think there is a couple of interesting points.
The average delay between somebody starting to suffer from hearing impairment and actually needing something done, it takes them several years to get around it. There is a lot of social stigma around hearing impairment, whether it's people being dismissive or not being patient or whether it is I don't want to be seen with this giant blob sticking out of my ear, it's very unfortunate because untreated hearing impairment can contribute to cognitive decline, just like not getting your vision corrected, and also, this is something that I have experienced, if you are using your brain to compensate for not being able to hear people and trying to understand what they are saying, one effect of is that is that it's much more difficult to remember what they are saying, or to learn or understand from what they are saying.
So, overall, what's the bottom line? It makes it difficult to distinguish people in an environment, social events, service counters, accents. I've been in a situation where I was standing up before a Plenary of 400 people and somebody could ask a question from the microphone and I can't figure out what they are saying which is really embarrassing.
So, the good news is that this is something that can be mitigated a lot by technology. I mean on the science front, there is some very promising developments in inner ear cell gene therapy research but in practice treatment usually means hearing aids and there is a lot of good news when it comes to hearing assistive technology, at least for my condition. Thanks to all these ear pods and voice cancelling and tele conferences and all the rest of it, audio digital processing has come a very long way in recent decades. It's arguable it's improving even faster than my hearing declining.
The other good thing is that technologies which are assistive for non‑native language speakers are also assisted for hearing impaired people. There is technological improvement that help. The other thing I will say that I am just an example of that, is the RIPE meetings stenographers, I mean they just do such a great job, they make such a difference, not just to people who find it easier to understand English that way but also to people like me who can follow along. So, what I would say is despite all the hype at the moment, I will rely on my hearing aid technology a hundred percent of the time, I would not want to rely on automated captioning. It's 100% of the time. It's just not there yet. So...geeking it a bit more, because that's what we do.
Hearing aids they are very powerful signalling processes and technology, they are rapidly converging with wireless ear buds. You can get ear bud software that will do translation or act as hearing aids. And most of the things that you can do with your ear buds are things that hearing aids can do, but hearing aids are very expensive. Fortunately, part of this convergence in some countries, non‑description hearing aids can be bought over the counter, just like reading glasses, they are kind of mid‑point in the price scale between ear buds and full hearing aids. But I think we're moving as a society to the point where people see oh that's cool, that thing you have got in your ear, not oh my God you are the kid that everyone has to yell at kind of idea. So that's also a development.
I mean, you know, I kind of look into this a lot, because sure I can do cool things like a zoom conference without any head set. But to get it to work, especially when you are an OpenSource user like I am, then, you know, there are various protocols, blue tooth, LE and LC stuff, asher for Android, MFI for Mac, blue tooth stack, audio stack, that announced OpenSource implementation of Asha last week. I think that's quite interesting in a conference context is another blue tooth technology that's coming down the line is, is aura cast, which is blue tooth audio broadcast, I think that can be game changer for multi‑lingual environments, for assistive applications in auditorium locations, so I am following that.
I think there is also another important point here. Which is that no technology based solution is perfect. I am fortunate there are technology based solutions to my particular mild disability, a lot of disabilities you just can't do easy technical fixes for. It's about being mindful of the person and their specific needs. There are some things in life we can't avoid.
So, with that kind of segues into my next point.
I don't know how much discussion there is being of ageing in this forum. I had to skip out on a few RIPE meetings for a few years, but I think it's important to have a discussion about these things and my perspective is that I don't in general think we have an ageism problem within the Internet operations community. And, you know, also that's a very recognising it goes both ways, I am not necessarily seeing both ends of that. I do think that we have an ageism problem in the wider tech industry especially concerning hiring. I see a lot of very qualified peers, people that I have known for many years who are getting laid off more frequently, they are finding it more difficult to find new jobs, they are between jobs for longer.
I'll save my rant about redesign and accessibility being thrashed by updates for another place.
You know, another personal opinion is that I really don't think the media is obsessing with trying to stereotype each generation based on some arbitrary year interval with particular attributes is at all helpful. I think it just encourages a mindset of ageism in both directions. Humans are much more diverse than this in general, age is just one dimension in that multi‑dimensional space.
So, have I experienced ageism? I am not aware of having been on the receiving end of this personally. I can kind of see in the wind that yeah, there is some things that aggressions, but I think mostly, they are unintended unconscious bias or they may actually be due to cultural differences as well. So I think it's just mindful to be aware of these things like any other bias that may be unconscionable or unintended.
More constructively, I have been doing this stuff for a long time. I am grateful that I have an enriching and successful career. So, you know, what's helping me keeping in the game for as long as that? Some of these things may be obvious now, they weren't necessarily obvious to me when I started my career. I think that, you know, I mentioned I did computer science at two good universities. A strong emphasis in these courses on theory, first principles, maths, architecture and algorithms. Not getting too stuck down into particular programming languages or platforms, and I think a lots of these first principle skills they can be applied to specific situations and having these as a basis is actually very useful. Build your network by volunteering non‑profit activity, raising your game internationally, all these kinds of activities. RIPE is one of the best places to do that.
Diversify your income sources. If you have got a site project or a side hustle, keep that going. Several of the things I started in my career were spin out projects from other things I had previously done. At some point I think it's important to pivot from being the person that does stuff to the person that enables mentors and facilities and promotes and teaches others. I certainly had some great opportunities to do that in my career and I am very proud of how far some of the people that I have worked with have gone. You need to develop a habit of avoiding getting in the way of the upcoming talent.
So, some other things that have worked. I mean this kind of intersects with what Maribel was saying in her talk. Consider switching to self employment, independent contracting is your experience in networking grows, you are no longer subject to the policies or whims or layoffs of large corporations. My vision of retirement has been not of ‑‑ I am off to the beach or the golf course, it's about finding a place where your income is not dependent on other parties, but it's not like you can stop contributing to the.communities and hopefully being useful.
And then I know it's not easy for young people, but fund your pensions and savings and investments early. Take good advice as much as you are able, the sooner you start, even on a small scale, will pay off in the long term.
And look after your physical and mental health. We have lost recently too many good people too soon. Let's not have that happen again where it's avoidable.
So, in retrospect, the RIPE community has been an important part of my career and personal development. We are a very broad church, and I think we're better for it. I have tried to take many of the things I have learned in this community, guiding principles especially from Rob Blokzijl, and Daniel Karrenberg. It's Rob's birthday today. And very often I ask myself what would Rob do and I try to take these principles and example and build them into our communities elsewhere in our industry. However unconventional or flawed I have been, RIPE people have been friendly, fun and welcoming and supportive throughout so thank you and thank you particularly for all the people who have encouraged me to be open about myself and have encouraged me to come and do this talk.
So, if there is some questions, my final slide which I'm not going to talk through it slightly off topic but it is a reading list of feminist science fiction authors that I really like and, you know, they have a vision of a better future than where we are now and some ideas for how to get there. So, anyway, thank you for listening, and I am happy to take any questions.
(Applause)
AUDIENCE SPEAKER: I wanted to thank you for being a trail blazer, you have shown a lot of courage, it's funny I am getting a little choked up. This might sound a little weird, but I am really proud of you. I might be misremembering because of the whole age thing, but it seems to me that Keira's first professional social outing was at RIPE Amsterdam and I remember how anxious you were back then, and I remember that most of the people that I saw interacting with Keira were either very supportive or indifferent, and indifferent was a win, right. Like, I don't know, you know, what kind of negative experiences you might have had at that time, but I am proud of the community that RIPE has been a safe place for people to be who they are.
But, thank you, thank you for being the person you are, and coming here and be willing to talk about it. Thank you.
(Applause)
ANNA WILSON: Incoming RIPE Vice‑Chair. Fellow rocket fuel enthusiast. That was great, thank you very much. I really appreciated it. One thing I want to mention. You talk about coming out. Yeah, I get it. You talked a lot about how other people feel and how to manage how other people feel when you are coming out. I want to say kind of not so much for yourself as for the audience, yeah, that's a thing I am worried about too and that's a thing I thought about and tried to control the variables, it's also not under our control, and it is maybe more important to control how we feel about how we do it and how we want to do it. Thank you.
(Applause)
AUDIENCE SPEAKER: I also want to make a comment about coming out. I am speaking for myself. I was sort of already involved in the Code of Conduct team which are still under development. I thought at the time because I was also doing this at the Dutch NL NOG that it's paramount that you show Code of Conduct teams, or people working for it, that their work is not in vain and that you can demonstrate that it works because just by showing up, I think that's very important, and also then I want to thank its RIPE team at large and also for starting the Code of Conduct team to make this all possible.
(Applause)
DENESH BHABUTA: Any questions online? Did you have anything ‑‑
KEI MITCHELL: I was going to say thank you for teaching me some of the things that I was able to embody and as far as coming out is concerned, yeah, absolutely, it's about creating a safe space and RIPE does feel like a safe space in my experience. So again, thank you to everybody who has contributed to that.
DENESH BHABUTA: Anyone else? Thank you Kei. Thank you.
(Applause)
.
So, thank you everyone for being here tonight, and hopefully what you have heard has been a learning experience and has been inspiring and you have managed to actually get something from that for yourselves. Are there any comments for or questions for Maribel or even Kei? No. Okay. Well thank you so much. I hope it's been enjoyable. I hope to see you at the next one in Amsterdam but I will leave you with Mirjam to say a final few things.
MIRJAM KUHNE: I just wanted to see if you had any last comments. But I just wanted to thank you for running this session and also to the speakers and that was truly inspiration al and great, you are very brave. And I learned a lot and I am also really proud of this community, that it actually makes this possible and that you feel safe here, and presenting this.
And for next time, I mean we are always open, let us know if you have any other topics, we have been thinking about doing something about age and various aspects, too young, too old, whatever, the whole spectrum. How do we include those in our community. But any other topic that you might be interested in, I mean this is diversity. It started like Women in Tech session and it's really grown up I think into a DEI session and make sure our community is inclusive to everybody and it's covering all kinds of aspects of diversity which I think is a great development. Thanks again for running this and thanks to the speakers and I am happy to hear any thoughts or ideas for other topics that we should cover next time.
DENESH BHABUTA: Thank you to the speakers, but again, if you have any ideas for topics for Edinburgh, please approach me, I am here all week, Mirjam of course and of course there is the RIPE NCC team who will be happy to hear from you as well.
MIRJAM KUHNE: There is a mailing list for diversity@ripe.net if you are not subscribed to that you can find it on the RIPE dot website, we can also discuss topics there.
DENESH BHABUTA: Thank you everyone.
(Applause)
LIVE CAPTIONING BY
MARY McKEON, RMR, CRR, CBC
DUBLIN, IRELAND.